“What an interesting dynamic in this comment string. Many of these replies are, as they said, other slash shippers. They’re the “good” slash shippers. They’re the slash shippers that know it’s not something you’re “supposed” to talk about. They’re the “True Fan” slash shippers who don’t “push” anything on the show and know that OBVIOUSLY any fan who wants to see the years of subtext indicating Dean’s bisexuality, or the blatant romantic troping and subtext for Destiel, actually be examined and explored on the television is “Delusional.”
Not like them. THEY keep their slash ship in fandom, hidden away, where it’s SUPPOSED to be.
….Right. Okay.
See, this entire argument of slash shippers versus slash shippers and “keep it in the fandom where it belongs” is based upon a few concerning things. First of all, the idea that slash ships are something we’re supposed to be ASHAMED of. Something we’re not supposed to talk about. You know, even when I was shipping Mulder and Scully, which was a contentious ship environment, no one told me “You’re not allowed to talk about that!” Sure they’d argue that they didn’t want to see it on the show, for whatever their reasons, but they never completely denied that the topic of conversation should ever be broached in polite conversation. No one has ever done that with ANY male/female ship I’ve shipped, in fact.
No, it’s queer ships we’re not supposed to talk about. Basically, queer ships are considered a “kink” by these people, something you can share among other people of the same kink…. but not something you should bring up otherwise! After all, that’s us (fans, shippers, writers, artists) running wild with the characters, doing things they’d never show on television with them! And in the past, maybe that was true. Everything queer was stuffed into the celluloid closet, left in subtext, and queer viewers were supposed to read coded comments and feel that nod and appreciate that it got past network censors.
The network censors are not there keeping these shows on the straight and narrow-minded part of the straight and narrow now. What’s their excuse?
No, let’s look at the other slash fan excuses for “keep slash ships off the show!”
“Stop shoving your ship down our throats! YOUR ship is no more valid than MY ship! It’ll never happen! I KNOW mine will never happen, you need to know yours never will! Ugh!” This is based upon a fallacy of equal implausibility. ALL slash ships, in their minds, are equally impossible. Which is … frankly, simply not true. So the argument becomes because the show isn’t “about THAT.”
About what, exactly?
About people?
Because that’s all this is. Some people are queer. Their stories don’t have to be a “queer story,” it folds into the understanding of the character within the story. Jeers telling us “go watch (some usually sneered at by these people stereotypically ‘queer’ show) where they talk about things like that if that’s what you’re interested in” is rather insulting. No, I’m interested in Supernatural. I’m interested in all of these characters, and killing monsters, angels and demons, heaven and hell, urban legends and faith and fate and free will and found family… family which also can include a romantic relationship WITHOUT changing the entire theme and arc of the show. Particularly in a relationship so deeply seeded as this.
And it is deeply seeded. The people asking about queerbaiting in the AskSupernatural tag were not pulling this out of thin air. Go google Queerbaiting. Supernatural will show up. Not just Tumblr posts, or tweets like these, or disgruntled “Destihellers” who “watch the show wrong,” but major articles on news sites discussing queerbaiting. Or major television news sites who over the last few years have been asking “Will they or won’t they” regarding the characters relationship, the same as they would any heterosexual pairing on television.
And that is how it SHOULD be. The same as any heterosexual relationship on television. The difference between that and this, though, is that the ‘bait’ is put out there (in a heterosexual relationship, that’d be ‘ship teasing’) but then it’s denied. “No, we never did that.” “No, that would never happen.” “No, you’re NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT THAT.”
Or worse. “Well, wait and see!” “Patience.” “Spoilers!” Etc.
Do you know what those lines are? They’re lures. They’re showrunners who know that they have something in Dean and Castiel’s relationships that fans have gravitated to, that they’ve played to (“You have me confused with the other angel, the one in the dirty trenchcoat who’s in love with you,” “he was your boyfriend first,” “possibility of love in all places,” “I need you,” “I love you…” “He’s in love,” “You did it, all of it, Dean Winchester,”) that they want to capitalize on. They want and need their queer audience and play to it without intention of following through, and with the hopes of maintaining plausible deniability.
That’s queerbaiting by the book.
So, it’s interesting to me how many “True Fan” slash fans are in these comments bashing other slash fans for not knowing their “place.” How often have these same fans gone in telling the writers that Dean and Sam are soulmates, that they should drive off that cliff together at the end holding hands, that SamNDean belong together, that the writers don’t understand them if they have them fighting, that they’re doing it wrong if they’re at odds, that their relationship is the most important thing of the show and anything less than complete focus on that relationship is failure on the part of the show…
Essentially, queer coding their slash ship while demanding textual validation of their own interpretations.
So. Like I said. This entire discussion is truly fascinating.
”
What an interesting dynamic in this comment string. Many of these replies are, as they said, other slash shippers. They’re the “good” slash shippers. They’re the slash shippers that know it’s not something you’re “supposed” to talk about. They’re the “True Fan” slash shippers who don’t “push” anything on the show and know that OBVIOUSLY any fan who wants to see the years of subtext indicating Dean’s bisexuality, or the blatant romantic troping and subtext for Destiel, actually be examined and explored on the television is “Delusional.”
Not like them. THEY keep their slash ship in fandom, hidden away, where it’s SUPPOSED to be.
….Right. Okay.
See, this entire argument of slash shippers versus slash shippers and “keep it in the fandom where it belongs” is based upon a few concerning things. First of all, the idea that slash ships are something we’re supposed to be ASHAMED of. Something we’re not supposed to talk about. You know, even when I was shipping Mulder and Scully, which was a contentious ship environment, no one told me “You’re not allowed to talk about that!” Sure they’d argue that they didn’t want to see it on the show, for whatever their reasons, but they never completely denied that the topic of conversation should ever be broached in polite conversation. No one has ever done that with ANY male/female ship I’ve shipped, in fact.
No, it’s queer ships we’re not supposed to talk about. Basically, queer ships are considered a “kink” by these people, something you can share among other people of the same kink…. but not something you should bring up otherwise! After all, that’s us (fans, shippers, writers, artists) running wild with the characters, doing things they’d never show on television with them! And in the past, maybe that was true. Everything queer was stuffed into the celluloid closet, left in subtext, and queer viewers were supposed to read coded comments and feel that nod and appreciate that it got past network censors.
The network censors are not there keeping these shows on the straight and narrow-minded part of the straight and narrow now. What’s their excuse?
No, let’s look at the other slash fan excuses for “keep slash ships off the show!”
“Stop shoving your ship down our throats! YOUR ship is no more valid than MY ship! It’ll never happen! I KNOW mine will never happen, you need to know yours never will! Ugh!” This is based upon a fallacy of equal implausibility. ALL slash ships, in their minds, are equally impossible. Which is … frankly, simply not true. So the argument becomes because the show isn’t “about THAT.”
About what, exactly?
About people?
Because that’s all this is. Some people are queer. Their stories don’t have to be a “queer story,” it folds into the understanding of the character within the story. Jeers telling us “go watch (some usually sneered at by these people stereotypically ‘queer’ show) where they talk about things like that if that’s what you’re interested in” is rather insulting. No, I’m interested in Supernatural. I’m interested in all of these characters, and killing monsters, angels and demons, heaven and hell, urban legends and faith and fate and free will and found family… family which also can include a romantic relationship WITHOUT changing the entire theme and arc of the show. Particularly in a relationship so deeply seeded as this.
And it is deeply seeded. The people asking about queerbaiting in the AskSupernatural tag were not pulling this out of thin air. Go google Queerbaiting. Supernatural will show up. Not just Tumblr posts, or tweets like these, or disgruntled “Destihellers” who “watch the show wrong,” but major articles on news sites discussing queerbaiting. Or major television news sites who over the last few years have been asking “Will they or won’t they” regarding the characters relationship, the same as they would any heterosexual pairing on television.
And that is how it SHOULD be. The same as any heterosexual relationship on television. The difference between that and this, though, is that the ‘bait’ is put out there (in a heterosexual relationship, that’d be ‘ship teasing’) but then it’s denied. “No, we never did that.” “No, that would never happen.” “No, you’re NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT THAT.”
Or worse. “Well, wait and see!” “Patience.” “Spoilers!” Etc.
Do you know what those lines are? They’re lures. They’re showrunners who know that they have something in Dean and Castiel’s relationships that fans have gravitated to, that they’ve played to (“You have me confused with the other angel, the one in the dirty trenchcoat who’s in love with you,” “he was your boyfriend first,” “possibility of love in all places,” “I need you,” “I love you…” “He’s in love,” “You did it, all of it, Dean Winchester,”) that they want to capitalize on. They want and need their queer audience and play to it without intention of following through, and with the hopes of maintaining plausible deniability.
That’s queerbaiting by the book.
So, it’s interesting to me how many “True Fan” slash fans are in these comments bashing other slash fans for not knowing their “place.” How often have these same fans gone in telling the writers that Dean and Sam are soulmates, that they should drive off that cliff together at the end holding hands, that SamNDean belong together, that the writers don’t understand them if they have them fighting, that they’re doing it wrong if they’re at odds, that their relationship is the most important thing of the show and anything less than complete focus on that relationship is failure on the part of the show…
Essentially, queer coding their slash ship while demanding textual validation of their own interpretations.
So. Like I said. This entire discussion is truly fascinating.
”Emily Rose in the comment section of this article about SPN and queerbaiting. Excellent commentary! (article here)
I’m really tired of fans policing other fans for being too passionate. I’m sick of seeing fans called delusional for expecting the narrative contracts they are offered to be fulfilled in good faith. But most of all, I’m tired of the homophobia that dogs shipping, and the various justifications and masks people hide behind, like, “You don’t really want representation, you just want your ship,” as though a ship somehow doesn’t qualify as representation because you like it too much. I mean, what the fuck is more representative than the characters you identify with most being queer on the screen?
I love a lot of things about fandom, but I’m also worn out by some of the more oppressive bullshit, and the homophobia that comes hand-in-hand with shipping makes the idea of a long cryo-sleep and waking up in a new age sound pretty appealing.
(via cimness)
(via withthingsunreal)
